Curse

jon comgree · Apr 22, 2011, 04:43 PM // 16:43

that just happened to be situation u described.-ironsheik, he wanted a run, no1 was offering, so i offered

thedarkmarine · Apr 22, 2011, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Extrapolating makes logic much easier.

OP suggests that "runner sets price, hence runner's price is never wrong, take it or leave it". That may sound reasonable, but apply real numbers, and you'll see the flaws of the argument.

We can disagree on whether 4k is unreasonable for a Gadd's run from Vlox. Fine. What if the runner asked 10k? 40k? 40e? Suddenly not so hard to judge whether it's too high, is it? It's still well within the "runner sets price, hence there is no normal price" argument. Conclusion: the argument is invalid. There is such a thing as a reasonable ("normal") price. If you're unwilling to charge a reasonable price, you are overpricing.

What if someone is willing to pay 10k? 40k? 40e? Surprise! it's reasonable! conclusion: argument is valid

chessyang · Apr 22, 2011, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon comgree

question is:
Is there a set price or does the runner(s) decide what they will charge?
Can a customer report you for running at a higher than average price?

1) the runner decides the price. it his/your time and energy.
2) yeah they can report you but... Again you/runner sets the price. And only if you scam someone. When they review the notes and it someone QQ then they get flagged not you.

Also the average is a "Guide" something to go by because nothing is set in stone for runs. Just some made up rule/prices runners follow.

Azazello · Apr 22, 2011, 08:19 PM // 20:19

A few people are missing one whole side of the price setting argument. If the runner sets their price too high, they never make any money, because no one will pay them. They can only charge what the market will bear.

Conversely, the comments about opportunity cost are particularly relevant. If someone can make 20k farming in the same amount of time as it takes to do a drok run, it's simply not feasible for them to charge less than 20/7k for the run, or about 3k per customer. If no one is willing to pay that price, the drok run dies, as it is no longer a competitive industry.

VikingHaag · Apr 22, 2011, 08:55 PM // 20:55

I have been a runner for a while before i stopped playing. The overcharge must be done sometimes. In a normal situation a 1k run for 7 people, i'd gladly do it. But now, havng only 1 customer, i'd either overcharge him or go do something else. Would you actually work full time to get only 1/7 of your income? HELL NO!

Next Top Runner · Apr 23, 2011, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by VikingHaag

I have been a runner for a while before i stopped playing. The overcharge must be done sometimes. In a normal situation a 1k run for 7 people, i'd gladly do it. But now, havng only 1 customer, i'd either overcharge him or go do something else. Would you actually work full time to get only 1/7 of your income? HELL NO!

Extremely valid point.

Snograt · Apr 23, 2011, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Welcome to the all-new "how much 2 charge 4 a run" thread - now with 95% less politics!

w00t! · Apr 23, 2011, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

A few people are missing one whole side of the price setting argument. If the runner sets their price too high, they never make any money, because no one will pay them. They can only charge what the market will bear.

Conversely, the comments about opportunity cost are particularly relevant. If someone can make 20k farming in the same amount of time as it takes to do a drok run, it's simply not feasible for them to charge less than 20/7k for the run, or about 3k per customer. If no one is willing to pay that price, the drok run dies, as it is no longer a competitive industry.

Thread winner! Nailed every point. Most people completely ignore opportunity costs.

Only change I'd make is that they can only charge what the market will bear at that point in time. The market may fluctuate quite a bit. For example, Enslavement Stones aren't worth more than 30gp normally, but easily sell for 1k this week, being Nick items. Next week they'll be 30gp again. So asking 1k this week will result in a fast trade, but it won't next week.

Angel Killuminati · Apr 23, 2011, 07:03 PM // 19:03

No, you can never over charge for a service.

A price is set for a service, and if there is no interest, the runner gets no 'service.'

Therefore the price drops. Supply and demand. Simple business economics.

bhavv · Apr 23, 2011, 07:24 PM // 19:24

They can charge however much they want if you're too lazy do get through the game yourself

Age · Apr 24, 2011, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

I'm not saying capitalism is bad....but it does tend to lend itself to greed.
This is really neither her nor there considering we are talking about GW (a fantasy world) and not the real world.

Maybe it's just my sense of morality kicking in....but I don't really care for taking advantage of others.

For certain things in GW.....I'd have to diagree with you...

How much is an ecto? normal price=1-2k variance of what the rare mat trader sells/pays

...a Z key? normal price depending on the market 5-7k

...a Droks run? tips-5k

..a party point? 75g-150g

WTS 1 ecto 20k...even if someone buys it ...is overcharging...(yikes buyers remorse)

Wts zkeys 20k/ea...if its the last key someone needs for title..it could happen..does it mean they weren't over charged or did not over pay..? no

Charging 20k for a droks run " " " "

etc...etc....

Over the course of time yes "normal" prices become evident. When something is first released..there is a time of uncertainty and chaos where the is no "normal price" but over time prices will settle to a level of normality.

I am glad that someone know what price setting is and Droks is only 2K and I have LA to LoA for 3K which is only 500g.I don't and never will understand why everone charges so much for ecto as it is not real and eventually the price will plummet especailly after GW2 comes out.

thedarkmarine · Apr 24, 2011, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I am glad that someone know what price setting is and Droks is only 2K and I have LA to LoA for 3K which is only 500g.I don't and never will understand why everone charges so much for ecto as it is not real and eventually the price will plummet especailly after GW2 comes out.

another itg that don't know about economics.

pinkeyflower · Apr 24, 2011, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I am glad that someone know what price setting is and Droks is only 2K and I have LA to LoA for 3K which is only 500g.I don't and never will understand why everone charges so much for ecto as it is not real and eventually the price will plummet especailly after GW2 comes out.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think initially ectos were high because people wanted them for the FoW armour but as they became increasingly valued and due to the implementation of the 100k trade cap they simply became a way of circumventing that due to their barter value. I wonder how many people that have ectos use them for crafting FoW armour.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedarkmarine

another itg that don't know about economics.

itg?

Bellatrixa · Apr 24, 2011, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkeyflower

I wonder how many people that have ectos use them for crafting FoW armour.

Quite a lot considering the HoM points that obby armour gives. Ofc after you've got a set, there's always deciding which of your other characters you want it on or if you're going to just use your ectos for trading. I can tell you now that there are a lot of people who will probably never set foot into UW as part of a SC team and therefore will be sourcing their ectos from trades with other players or buying from the rare mat merchant. These people are less likely to be throwing ectos around as currency and will be saving them so they can get obby armour.

Back on the main topic of the thread, I've noticed people are willing to admit that there is a "usual" price for goods and services. Surely if you are knowingly charging someone more than what you know to be the "usual" price, that is by definition over-charging someone?

While there is the whole suck em dry for what you can attitude, surely it's worth less hassle if someone refuses to pay a higher than normal price to drop it down a bit to accomodate them? I mean hey, you gave it a shot, why not make SOME cash by doing whatever it is at the more "standard" price of the time rather than make nothing at all? Sure it's only one person at the time, but what about all the people in that outpost who are seein the argument? What about the next time it happens? It's give and take, ya know.

If you're needing to use pcons and therefore charging more to justify the price, why not explain that to the person you're running? If they say they don't care and want it cheaper, don't pop the pcons, run em without at a slower pace and if they bitch and refuse to pay, you've not lost anything but some time.

Vlox's to Gadd's doesn't take that long and isn't that difficult either. Heck, I ran the damn thing on my Necro for the dude mentioned in the first post. I was thinking during the run whether 4k was really a just price. I have to say that given the time it took and what it cost me (about 10 mins of my time), I didn't think it was. I didn't charge him at all. I've run people to a few places on my Necro and no, I don't charge because a) people get sniffy if you run on anything other than a warrior/derv/ranger/sin, and b) because it was such a small part of my time that I genuinely didn't care.

Also those of you saying there's no such thing as over-charging? I bet you would lol at a new person trying to sell a Shing Jea green for 20k :P Just sayin.

Zebideedee · Apr 24, 2011, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Depends really, I see a lot of "PRO RUNNING MISHAN etc. 20k NO NOOBS" then a few seconds later there'll be a "Running Mission etc. for tips!" I suppose it's really up to the player to shop around, if the price is always too high, do it yourself

thedarkmarine · Apr 24, 2011, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bellatrixa

Quite a lot considering the HoM points that obby armour gives. Ofc after you've got a set, there's always deciding which of your other characters you want it on or if you're going to just use your ectos for trading. I can tell you now that there are a lot of people who will probably never set foot into UW as part of a SC team and therefore will be sourcing their ectos from trades with other players or buying from the rare mat merchant. These people are less likely to be throwing ectos around as currency and will be saving them so they can get obby armour.

Back on the main topic of the thread, I've noticed people are willing to admit that there is a "usual" price for goods and services. Surely if you are knowingly charging someone more than what you know to be the "usual" price, that is by definition over-charging someone?

While there is the whole suck em dry for what you can attitude, surely it's worth less hassle if someone refuses to pay a higher than normal price to drop it down a bit to accomodate them? I mean hey, you gave it a shot, why not make SOME cash by doing whatever it is at the more "standard" price of the time rather than make nothing at all? Sure it's only one person at the time, but what about all the people in that outpost who are seein the argument? What about the next time it happens? It's give and take, ya know.

If you're needing to use pcons and therefore charging more to justify the price, why not explain that to the person you're running? If they say they don't care and want it cheaper, don't pop the pcons, run em without at a slower pace and if they bitch and refuse to pay, you've not lost anything but some time.

Vlox's to Gadd's doesn't take that long and isn't that difficult either. Heck, I ran the damn thing on my Necro for the dude mentioned in the first post. I was thinking during the run whether 4k was really a just price. I have to say that given the time it took and what it cost me (about 10 mins of my time), I didn't think it was. I didn't charge him at all. I've run people to a few places on my Necro and no, I don't charge because a) people get sniffy if you run on anything other than a warrior/derv/ranger/sin, and b) because it was such a small part of my time that I genuinely didn't care.

Also those of you saying there's no such thing as over-charging? I bet you would lol at a new person trying to sell a Shing Jea green for 20k :P Just sayin.

congrats. youve just described supply and demand. we've got to stop beating this dead horse.

pinkeyflower · Apr 24, 2011, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedarkmarine

congrats. youve just described supply and demand. we've got to stop beating this dead horse.

I dont' think anyone was arguing that the interaction of supply and demand doesn't set prices for a good or service.

Back to the question at hand, there have been two answers: no you cannot overcharge because if someone wants something and pays a higher price then the object has utility and the consumer is somewhat happy; yes because it doesn't matter if the consumer pays the escalated price because that price is higher than the 'normal' price.

Pick which one you think is right. I agree with the latter.

Ranger Jaap · Apr 24, 2011, 04:28 PM // 16:28

A runner can do whatever he wants. because Arena net does not support running in guild wars, so if you get scammed or overcharged thats to bad.

Snograt · Apr 24, 2011, 05:22 PM // 17:22

I think we're done here.